The Recycling Business in the USA is a for-profit business. They revenue from taking recyclable materials, refining it, and reselling it to corporations at a less expensive worth than producing the fabric from scratch.

Provide and Demand in Recycling

In the event you take a look at the demand facet of the recycling business, an array of multi-billion greenback corporations like Coca-Cola and PepsiCo are incentivized to purchase recycled items and scale back their supplies prices.

On the availability facet, ~300 million tons of trash are generated yearly in the USA. Estimates recommend that as much as 75% of that’s recyclable.

On paper, it appears clear that maximizing the quantity of trash the US recycles is in everybody’s curiosity. One subject although, lower than a 3rd of the trash finally ends up recycled.

Areeb, co-founder of Glacier, breaks down the multi-layered reasoning behind why the Recycling business can’t deal with this quantity of trash, and what Glacier is doing to handle this.

Areeb Malik

Areeb Malik is the Co-Founding father of Glacier, and he’s on a private mission to combat local weather change and extract worth from the $123B value of recyclables that fill the landfills and oceans. Earlier than founding Glacier, Areeb was a Software program Engineer at Fb, the place he used Machine Studying and Laptop Imaginative and prescient to construct out new product options.

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transcript

Areeb Malik: Thanks a lot for having me, Abate.

Abate: Earlier than we dive into what glacier is doing, I’d love to simply get an summary of the recycling business.

Areeb Malik: Yeah, positive. I feel the recycling and the waste business is a kind of spots that we as shoppers, , rely actually closely upon. Most of us don’t actually know the way it works. And that was definitely the case with me earlier than I began working at Glacier. it’s fairly fascinating. It’s a, it’s a very massive business.

There are a number of gamers concerned and there’s some huge cash that type of flows via behind the scenes. I feel one thing that folks don’t take into consideration is we spend fairly a bit of cash each month having our trash and our recycling and our compost simply magically disappear from our curbs. Proper?

It’s like many multiples of what we pay for our Netflix subscriptions. it goes to, it goes to the waste business. and the rationale for that’s cuz it’s a number of work behind the scenes. usually talking, I’ll type of run via it at a excessive degree.

_*How does recycling work? *_

Properly, you as a client otherwise you as a enterprise, take your recycling bin out to the curb. That’s kinda the tip of your involvement.

A truck comes over. These vehicles are often known as _*haulers*_ within the business. they dump your entire bins into their truck and drive round, click on all of your neighbor’s stuff and take it to a facility. Generally known as a “supplies restoration facility” or a MRF (Pronounced “Merf”) for shorts.

Love the title Merf.

Um, that MRF’s job is to kind. So you place a bunch of stuff into the bin a number of it wasn’t recyclable as a result of as a client, you may not know what’s recyclable or isn’t. after which inside the stuff that’s truly recyclable it must be sorted aside. Trigger if you wish to truly do one thing with these recyclable commodities, it is advisable kind the bottles other than the cans, other than the cardboard. Et cetera.

Um, this massive sorting problem is sort of exhausting to do. we are able to dive extra into how they do it trigger that’s the place our firm focuses. however to simply provide the subsequent steps in what occurs is, , this MRF creates, as an illustration, a giant pile of aluminum cans. What it does is then condenses these cans right into a cubic block, often known as a bale, and sells these bales to what we name a reclaimer or a recycler who buys what they hope is only one commodity.

Proper? So as an illustration, aluminum.

Um, they take that and so they do some course of with it to show it again into both extra aluminum cans or another materials that may be produced from recycled aluminum that occurs for plastics that occurs for cardboard. That occurs for a bunch of various commodities.

Um, and the rationale that is that is essential is as a result of that aluminum can and that plastic bottle, there’s a number of vitality, a number of potential vitality kinda saved in that commodity.

Um, and when you’re producing one thing new it’s truly much more* vitality environment friendly* to make use of that *recycled commodity* than to go mine for uncooked ore, or get the petroleum for the brand new plastic bottle, or no matter you is likely to be doing. And so that you truly get actually massive vitality financial savings by utilizing recycled commodities as a substitute of utilizing virgin inventory.

Um, in order that’s variety, that’s kinda within the overview, clearly that, that reclaimer that recycler sells uncooked aluminum or uncooked plastic chips to some producer who makes new bottles or shirts or sneakers or no matter, no matter they should.

Abate: Yeah. And does that vitality saving that you just get from recycling? Does that additionally switch right into a decrease general value than getting it from the Virgin materials?

Areeb Malik: Yeah, completely.

when you’re a producer of aluminum cans, there are two methods you’ll be able to produce them, proper?

You may both pay for the uncooked supplies. that’s gonna come within the type of aluminum, that aluminum that comes from uncooked supplies is gonna should pay for the mining and the transport and, and all the things that’s concerned.

The, , Distillation of their uncooked ore into precise aluminum, all the things that goes in that course of versus you should purchase aluminum from a recycler. that comes from all they needed to do was take a bunch of cans and soften them down and clear them up a bit of bit. and so it’s truly lots cheaper as a result of that recycler didn’t spend as a lot time or effort type of getting people who, that uncooked aluminum to you.

So, yeah. If we take a look at aluminum energy-wise, a recycled aluminum can takes 97% much less vitality to provide than a virgin can. I can’t let you know precisely what which means financially, however you’ll be able to, you’ll be able to type of think about the price financial savings that come together with that.

Abate: Yeah, no, that’s an enormous [00:05:00] distinction. and so when, , you talked about aluminum, so there are undoubtedly sure supplies which are extra precious to the companies who’re gonna be very incentivized at this level to truly spend money on recycled supplies than different ones. What can be the hierarchy of the very precious recyclable parts after which those that possibly we recycle, however it’s not as clear lower that there’s a monetary motive to take action?

Areeb Malik: Yeah, that’s a very good query. And it’s, it’s not an easy one. Sadly, the simple hierarchy I can provide you proper now could be that metals are Supreme. Metals are nice as a result of, with aluminum or metal, they’re what we name infinitely recyclable. Proper? You may take a can soften it down, form it into a brand new can, put a drink in it, return it, soften it down make a brand new can and go in circles ceaselessly.

With one thing like plastic or, , we like to consider our plastics, not as simply plastic, however the precise kind of plastic resin. So P E T, which is your triangle one plastic as we name it. once you usually recycle plastic, you don’t truly come again precisely the place you begin, you are likely to what we name a down cycle.

And that’s why you see a number of corporations promoting shirts and sneakers and baggage that have been as soon as made out of plastic bottles. Trigger you’ll be able to truly take the plastic bottle, spin it down into polyester fiber, after which promote that once more. however then once you recycle that bag, proper, is there a marketplace for that?

So that is what we name down biking. We type of go round in a circle, however we find yourself producing one thing that simply can’t be recycled on the finish of the day. and so when you concentrate on the hierarchy of commodities yeah, like steel’s supreme, Plastics are actually precious as a result of there’s a number of demand for them.

Paper is fairly strong. Cardboard proper now, particularly within the pandemic, they name brown gold as a result of it’s tremendous precious as nicely. Newspaper, workplace prints, and stuff like that begins to get much less precious.* Glass is a very attention-grabbing one as a result of it’s, infinitely recyclable, however it’s additionally actually heavy.*

And so if it’s a must to drive a bunch of glass bottles from one facility to a different. There’s a value to that as nicely. and in order that’s, that’s type of combined. a number of amenities don’t cope with glass. Numerous them do it type of is determined by how shut their purchaser is.

Abate: Would the glass be melted down and reformed or it will simply be actually reused as it’s by the identical firm that made it?

Areeb Malik: Yeah. For probably the most half, it’s going to be melted right down to reform. Trigger that’s the method of glass is much like that of steel. In the event you soften it down, it may possibly type of simply reshape.

I might think about there’s a giant push by people who find themselves they make canned soda to make use of recyclable steel. And so How does that motivation by these industries have an effect on the recycling business particularly “steel cans”?

Areeb Malik: Yeah. Nice query. So when you, when you produce cans, let’s say you’re Coke, proper?

And also you produce aluminum cans for you, you may not care concerning the recyclability and, and the inexperienced thumb facet, otherwise you, you would possibly and both approach, you’ve gotten this sort of monetary incentive, proper?

You say I wish to produce a bunch of cans. I’m truly keen to pay 2 cents additional per can to be inexperienced and sustainable cuz that’s in our ESG tips firm, no matter. both approach, what you’re is:

okay, cool. I can purchase a can that’s made out of virgin materials or I can purchase a can that’s made out of recycled materials.

Um, I stated earlier that recycled materials is cheaper, however then, the opposite trick there may be that it’s not cheaper if there aren’t any recycled cans to purchase, proper?

So if you’re a aluminum can recycler and also you don’t have any cans coming in, nicely, you’ll be able to’t promote any out. And that discount in provide goes to yield larger costs.

Um, so when you’re Coke and also you’re these two choices, you’re gonna go together with no matter is cheaper minus that fudge issue on your ESG type of motivation.

Um, However, , if we are able to get the recycled can to be extra plentiful and we are able to make it cheaper for that recycled can flip into uncooked aluminum once more, then Coke is swiftly… It doesn’t actually matter in the event that they’re a inexperienced thumb or not. They’re going to be incentivized to buy recycled inventory.

As a result of it’s cheaper and that’s type of what the target of the recycling business is. And that’s what the target of my firm glacier is, in addition to Can we manipulate the economics of recycling such that it doesn’t actually matter when you’re, , attempting to do good by the planet or not? The financially sensible factor to do is to purchase recycled.

Um, and that’s the, that’s the target that the target, I feel we’re all pushing towards.

Abate: Do you’ve gotten any thought what share of the particular items, the cans which are being produced, are being recycled?

Areeb Malik: Yeah. it’s an ideal query. I feel if I zoom into cans, I don’t have that quantity off the highest of my head. And I feel one of many issues that you just and I’ll type of unearth over the course of this dialog is there’s not a number of good information on this business. it may not shock you, however once you throw your bottle into the recycling, then no one’s actually monitoring that bottle at that time.

Um, and so there may be some info on the market, however it’s not very strong. what I can let you know is that inside the US, we recycle about [00:10:00] 30% of our waste stream. So the opposite 70% is both non-recyclable or is simply by no means recovered. estimates proper now say that we might recycle as much as 75%. So when you take a look at the quantity of trash we generate per 12 months that’s 300 million tons inside the US.

30% of that, that’s a few hundred million is recycled or composted. however that remaining there’s one other 45% chunk that may very well be recycled or composted that’s not being captured. and* that’s clearly a giant drawback,* proper? And that’s gonna come to:

A. Customers, not recycling correctly.

B. Packaging is being made in a approach such that it’s simply not recyclable.

C. The markets not present for sure kinds of recyclables.

As an illustration, a plastic bag in principle, sure. Might be recycled, however there’s no marketplace for it. And so all of these items type of mixed collectively to say, yeah, we’ve got 45% of the way in which stream that may very well be recycled. That’s not at present being captured.

Um, how a lot of, , I’m positive the people who find themselves placing stuff within the rubbish can within the recycling bins, they’re not considering that 70% of the stuff that they’re placing in there may be not recyclable.

Abate: They’re considering it’s possibly 90% and possibly threw in a single factor that they’re type of iffy about. so how a lot of this can be a simply client error? How a lot of that is the issue of the packaging? The individuals who make the packaging are considerably deceptive about whether or not or not it’s recycling. And is that this, a type of authorities initiative that should occur that really modifications this?

Areeb Malik: Yeah. I might, I might say it’s it, it’s simple responsible the patron right here, however I might argue that it’s actually not the patron’s fault. I’ve been working within the recycling business for 3 years now and I nonetheless have bother. With like a yogurt container. I’m like, ah, like which bin does this go in? and it’s, it’s actually exhausting to inform and it, the issue is like, it varies based mostly on the person packaging.

It varies on the place within the nation you’re, what does your native MRF truly settle for and type? All of those questions type of are very opaque. There’s no clear reply. And so you’ll be able to’t actually blame the patron for this at this level. It’s, it’s such a tough drawback to unravel. No marvel they’ll’t determine it out.

Um, I feel the largest offender proper now could be the truth that producers produce with out fascinated about the tip of lifetime of their product. So a number of instances you’ll go to the grocery retailer and also you’ll get a factor a bundle or no matter, and it’ll be a mixture as an illustration of a number of supplies. an ideal instance of that is Tetra pack.

Tetra pack is ubiquitous field for holding liquids or in juices, milk, no matter. and Tetra pack itself is fabricated from a number of layers of various commodities. So you bought paper, plastic, aluminum, all within the linings, and it does an ideal job preserving your drinks, however that materials is tremendous unrecoverable as a result of how are you gonna peel the plastic and the aluminum aside, after which extract the aluminum.

All of that type of stuff, proper. There are processes in place for this, however as a client, such as you’re not supposed to have the ability to do something. And if it’s a must to take a look at who’s responsible there, nicely, couldn’t you truly produce a container that’s designed for a very good finish of life, if you’re some juice producer and also you wish to ensure that your juice carton does have a very good place within the round financial system?

Um, and sadly to my unique level, proper? Like they don’t care about this. What issues to them is with the ability to produce lots, and do it at an inexpensive worth. And they also go together with no matter makes probably the most sense. once more, the dream of recycling is can we make what makes probably the most sense of commodity that has excellent circularity?

Abate: Yeah. And so the native MRFs, these are, are these personal establishments or are these authorities establishments?

Areeb Malik: Yeah, for probably the most half, they’re privately owned. A few ’em are privately owned by public corporations and about 10% are owned by municipalities.

And , one, one factor that you just additionally talked about earlier, there’s like these completely different classes you can take your recycled trash and put it into metals, plastics, et cetera. However in lots of people’s properties, all you’ve gotten is a single blue recycling bin that you just throw all the things into. precisely.

Abate: Yeah. So, after which is that this, is that this part of the problem? Is that this a authorities factor the place they’re not sending out the appropriate bins to all people’s homes, the place they want to have the ability to kind it out individually by themselves?

Areeb Malik: it’s a, that’s a very fascinating query. It’s, it’s actually exhausting to get good information on what would work right here. So I’ll offer you a pair examples. Numerous facil.., a number of, a number of communities across the nation, they provide what we name twin stream recycling, the place you even have two recycling bins, proper.

And the everyday approach they divide that’s containers. That’s gonna be your glass, plastic, cans, metal, no matter. After which paper all the things that’s, cardboard, mail, no matter. and there’s this idea often known as twin stream recycling. It was truly a giant factor again within the seventies, eighties, nineties, however it began to get phased out as a result of they discovered that folks, *shoppers like didn’t have the psychological vitality to do that.*

They usually discovered that if we get all people to dump all the things into one bin, we’ll no less than seize all of the stuff we care about, which is primarily metals and plastics. Proper. And so this [00:15:00] change went into, into place as a result of it simply made sense for, for an business that didn’t actually have the, the energy to deal with this a lot type of inbound.

However what they ended up with is one other drawback the place now all the things’s combined collectively. the, the opposite factor to consider is like what, what if each client was answerable for like dividing all the things into each particular person commodity kind? clearly I, you’ll be able to hear that and be like, that sounds, that sounds tiring.

Even, I might say that sounds tiring, cuz like I stated earlier than, I nonetheless have bother splitting a factor into the rights, the appropriate location, even with simply two bins. there are communities, very small communities that do that. There’s an ideal one you can examine in Japan, the place I feel they’ve like 30 or 40 various things, it’s a must to kind your trash into you carry your bag over to a bit of constructing.

And there’s a man in there who helps you kind all of the elements and like, yeah, that like works for purity’s sake, however like how many individuals are literally gonna try this versus simply dump all of it into the, the landfill. Prefer it, it’s a, it’s a tough commerce off to play with and we don’t have a number of good information to say which one actually works higher

Abate: An attention-grabbing factor about the USA, the dimensions of rubbish is simply considerably larger than a number of different international locations. partially as a result of we’re producing extra rubbish per particular person and likewise partially is a really massive nation. yeah.

Areeb Malik: We’re by inhabitants, I feel one twentieth or so of the world, however we produce 40% of its trash. So we’re a bit of bit skewed in our ratios there.

Abate: What’s the scale of the particular trash being produced? Are you aware what it’s per particular person?

Areeb Malik: So if we take a look at the us once more, we’re about 300 million tons of trash per 12 months. That’s that’s recyclable, compostable captured, not captured plus all the things that ought to go to landfill of that 300 million, like I stated, 30% a few hundred million is definitely recycled or composted.

In the event you simply type of take that into, , the inhabitants within the US, which I feel got here out to 330 million in 2021, we’re about for a family of 4. you’re about one ton of recyclables, not recycled yearly. So each single home, a automobile’s weight of, of stuff goes not recycled proper now as a result of we don’t have the infrastructure behind the scenes truly deal with it nicely.

Um, and when you take that quantity to the highest, you’re that three tons of stuff, consumed three tons of recyclables that you just eat, as a family. and a few of that will get recycled.

Abate: Yeah, which is a mind-blowing quantity. It’s lots that you could possibly be recapturing and reselling.

Areeb Malik: Yeah, undoubtedly. It’s lots to be recapturing. It’s lots to consider, like, *why can we eat a lot?* how are these different international locations, these different individuals around the globe getting by, with out doing it? lot of, lot of questions that I increase and hopefully, , for the listeners now, they’re like, that’s elevating some eyebrows, like, oh my gosh, my home is producing three tons of recyclable stuff, and solely certainly one of it’s getting recovered.

Abate: A sure portion of that will be companies and different massive industries which are additionally producing waste, not simply the one the households.

Areeb Malik: Yeah, completely. Yeah. It’s, it’s definitely not simply on households. Clearly, this quantity comes from you as an individual. , you throw some stuff in your bin at residence. Generally you go to Starbucks and also you toss it into the road, trash cans, all, all that stuff type of comes collectively. however it’s definitely an issue, irrespective of the way you take a look at it.

Abate: So what’s glacier’s strategy to this drawback?

Areeb Malik: Yeah. So I talked a bit of bit about that MRF proper? Their job is to kind and the sorting, when you take a look at type of the worldwide image of recycling from our opinion, the sorting piece has the largest worth so as to add with the smallest quantity of effort. And so it looks like there are a number of wins available on this sorting piece.

And the rationale for that is twofold. One is with the ability to drive the price of that sorting down will drive the price of that materials down. So we talked about that Coke instance if you may get the price of the recycle can down. You then’re gonna be extra incentivized as Coke to buy recycled cans.

And one of many massive drivers of value goes to be the sortation piece. I’ll notice that one other massive driver of value, which we must always not ignore proper now could be freight. The transport of stuff from one place to the opposite, simply driving tons and tons of trash round clearly prices lots. But when we’re that sorting drawback, it’s a massive drawback proper now.

And it’s an issue that might use a number of assist. so what we do at Glacier is we make know-how that helps that sortation course of. when you look inside certainly one of these MRFs, you’re gonna see primarily two kinds of sorting processes. One, I like to think about high-quantity, low-quality sortation.

In order that they use machines utilizing spinning discs or magnets or one thing type of heavy steel, old fashioned know-how that does a very good job processing a number of stuff. and it may possibly kind, as an illustration, massive items of cardboard other than small plastic bottles. [00:20:00] however I stated low high quality as a result of it’d both finish the like high-density to low-density piece.

As an illustration, you’re gonna see a number of stuff that shouldn’t have been there. As an illustration, when you’re attempting to kind paper other than all the things else, utilizing a density sorter, you’re gonna find yourself with a number of plastic movies, and plastic baggage within the paper stream. So you’ve gotten this high quality that’s, that’s an issue.

Um, and related on the draw back on the flip facet you’ve gotten,

Abate: That is with none extra computer systems, or processing? It is a utterly mechanical strategy?

Areeb Malik: Yeah, precisely. These are utterly mechanical approaches to sorting. they’re getting barely smarter, however they’re, it’s, it’s fairly type of blind because it stands immediately.

After which on the flip facet, there are the high-quality, low-quantity sorting methods. What that method is is, is individuals whose job is to face above conveyor belts and type via what these machines didn’t get proper. and likewise to kind via stuff, to forestall the machines from getting damage within the first place. You might have lots of people inside these amenities doing, and, and I feel they do an ideal job, proper?

Like an individual’s eyes and an individual’s arms are unbelievable. by way of doing any such process, however there’s solely a lot a, an individual can do. the downside there, after all, is that persons are additionally very costly. and so when you’re attempting to drive the prices of this finish output down individuals’s a very difficult choice to tug on.

Uh, the opposite difficult factor about that’s that persons are actually exhausting to rent for these, these roles. as you may think, it’s not essentially a really fascinating job. we’ve got spoken to a number of amenities throughout the nation and all of them echo the identical criticism. It’s identical to yeah my persons are like, it’s actually exhausting to get individuals to do that job.

Uh, we talked to a facility up in Michigan and so they have a station or a facility that has had 30 sorting stations out there within the final two years. The most individuals that they had within the facility on a given day was fourteen. So that you’re a number of amenities that identical to can’t presumably fill all of the spots they want.

And since you’ve gotten the excessive amount, low-quality machines working and also you don’t have sufficient high-quality, low-quantity individuals doing the QC you find yourself producing low-quality outputs. While you produce low-quality output,, you promote it for much less. The client has to do extra sorting. The tip output that they produce is decrease high quality.

Um, and so type of all the things is degraded by this, this sorting drawback not being accomplished effectively and prime quality sufficient.

So let me sit again as much as “what does Glacier do?” as a result of that was the unique query. *What we do is we construct robots.*

* W**e use laptop imaginative and prescient to look down at a conveyor belt inside certainly one of these amenities and establish each single factor that’s coming down that belt**.*

Um, we are able to classify. Principally, , recyclers consider commodities in a really particular approach. And so we simply know that code and say that’s P E T that’s HCP that’s an aluminum can, no matter it is likely to be. we are able to use laptop imaginative and prescient to try this. After which we go that info to a robotic sorting system that may then separate issues on a belt, nevertheless, it wants.

Um, and so it’s very dynamic. It’s very adaptable. It’s very simple to put in inside these amenities. and the thought is principally right here’s like a, an choice that you just as a facility can use. In the event you’re, when you can’t even rent these roles, right here’s a approach you can truly drive the price of your operations down and we hope additionally the standard of your operations up.

Abate: Yeah. So when you, when you have been to assist us visualize what this technique appears to be like like, is it a conveyor belt with a digital camera on high and two robotic arms which are, , like what precisely does it appear to be?

Areeb Malik: Yeah, it’s a, it’s a very good query. So I feel the very first thing you wanna visualize is these amenities these amenities, they range place to position, however usually talking, you’ve gotten a number of layers, a number of flooring, and on every of these flooring, there are conveyor belts. There are these massive machines I talked about earlier.

They do some type of sorting a number of loud noise. all the things’s type of shifting in all places directly. Very chaotic. And I feel very usually you don’t have a number of area, proper? These, these locations are fairly tight. Such as you stroll round belts and there are individuals saying that there are shoots over right here to drop stuff in. Not a ton of area so as to add new tools during which is likely one of the methods of working in these amenities.

Proper. You may’t simply say, Hey, like right here’s a 20 by 20 sq.… or 20 foot by 20-foot machine that may come and like, do your sorting. Trigger like, they’re like, “Properly, how am I gonna match that in?”

So think about that area, you’ve gotten some conveyor belt someplace that’s shifting stuff alongside. what we do is we principally construct a machine that straddles that conveyor belt.

Um, so with out having do any retrofits or main retrofits to your facility. We simply pop a machine proper on high of your conveyor belt. there’s a digital camera that sits a bit of bit upstream of the robots and appears straight down at it. Makes use of laptop imaginative and prescient to, like I stated, classify all the things coming via and the robotic itself.

Uh, yeah, you truly, you bought the quantity, proper. We do use two arms. however the thought is principally a sequence of robotic arms that may principally reply to laptop imaginative and prescient. decide up objects off the conveyor belt. Transfer ’em to some location, whether or not that’s a bin that they’re gathering in or a shoot that takes it to a different belt, or a separate belt altogether, and drive it to wherever they should drop this merchandise.

[00:25:00] We drop the merchandise there.

Abate: Yeah. So, , and simply fascinated about this from a robotics viewpoint, there are undoubtedly a number of challenges with trash. they’re random sizes and shapes and possibly a bit of bit moist, probably, like who is aware of? Proper. so how, how can you overcome the problem of with the ability to decide up particular person items and transfer them to particular person containers or different belts?

Areeb Malik: yeah, yeah. It’s a very good query. And that’s, that is likely one of the hardest issues that we’ve got to cope with, cuz you’re completely proper. I’ll get to the moist piece later, however like, when you simply think about a plastic bottle, like only one plastic bottle, similar model, similar dimension, like there are a thousand ways in which factor comes down the belt.

Um, it may be crumpled in numerous methods. It may be stuffed with water or not. It may be obfuscated by another materials. And so you’ve gotten this actually exhausting problem. The roboticists on right here will perceive, decide and place is likely one of the holy grail challenges of robotics immediately.

Um, and there are PhD applications devoted to designing a gripper that may do in addition to the human hand. our problem after all, is that we wish to make one thing that’s excessive ROI for these amenities. and is, is maintainable, proper? If I construct you a $500,000, , robotic arm that may solely have you learnt, three objects a minute, or, , 10 objects a minute.

That’s not ok for these amenities. so how can we overcome it? It’s, it’s a, it’s a growth. I feel it’s undoubtedly like a, a degree of focus for our firm. And one of many issues that our engineers are working actually exhausting on fascinated about, proper? Like how do you design finish effectors that stability excessive throughputs with the flexibility to efficiently decide as a lot as doable?

And we’ve got a metric internally that we name our decide charges and getting that factor near 100 is the dream. However when you take a look at simply applied sciences on the market, even the perfect robots, aren’t hitting 100% decide fee for objects. And that’s one thing that we’ve got to simply cope with to the wetness piece, to the dirtiness piece.

Yeah. Like that simply makes it more durable. Proper? If in case you have a grimy bottle coming via. You may in all probability decide it up the primary time, however that’s going to clog up a number of your parts and that makes the reliability of your machine tougher. So how do you decide an merchandise that’s soiled with out inflicting subject to your machine, or somewhat, how do you design a machine?

That’s simple to wash and simple to replace elements when it will get too soiled. that may sense when it’s not selecting nicely and alert the upkeep staff. Hey, like, are you able to come clear my, , like gears or hose or no matter that must be cleaned as a result of it’s gotten gunky. these are all challenges that I feel are very accessible inside robotics.

Um, however no one’s ever considered these issues within the context of, of trash. And so the issues that we get to unravel , on our personal over right here, which is fairly thrilling. however they’re, they’re I feel, I feel they’re, they’re, they’re doable. They’re actually achievable challenges, which is, I feel the thrilling factor about being right here.

It doesn’t really feel prefer it’s unachievable in our present context.

Abate: Yeah. And one profit is that, though you wanna clearly maximize the quantity of things that you just decide up and drop. You’re actually, you’re actually maximizing for getting good ROI and with the ability to replicate what an individual can do, however do it 24/ 7 versus eight hours a day and, and do it at scale. So even when you say miss a water bottle, that simply goes into your percentages and also you issue that out, and possibly it’s not the tip of the world as a result of an individual might additionally simply miss one thing or, worse off, not even be working as a result of it’s 6:00 PM

Areeb Malik: Positively, And that’s one of many good issues about being in our area. , I take into consideration my colleagues within the self-driving automobile area and, and when you’re doing self-driving automobiles, there are lot of those different robots. Like you aren’t allowed to make errors, that robotic can’t fail.

Um, and also you spend a number of efforts type of engaged on the 0.99999. Proper. whereas for us, like, yeah, it’s high quality. If we. 0.98 prefer it’s, it’s like, it’s a really excessive ROI machine if we get to that time. So it’s completely okay if we make these errors. And what that permits us to do is it permits us to concentrate on the larger image.

We don’t get caught up within the particulars and we are able to truly do, is say, okay, cool. Like this machine works 98% effectively. Like, what else, what else does does recycling want? What different robotics do we have to handle your, how do we have to evolve this machine to deal with this set up location or this commodity kind or, or no matter it is likely to be.

Abate: Yeah. And so additionally to again it as much as the software program facet, there’s additionally object detection and classification placing this factor into teams. is that, or can you leverage some open supply sources on the market? Is that this already a resolve drawback or is that this one other massive problem of your organization?

Areeb Malik: Yeah, it’s, it’s a very good query. I feel usually we wish to construct issues in home right here. One of many issues that’s distinctive about what we’re constructing is it’s a robotic customized design for the recycling business. [00:30:00] a number of instances what you are able to do is you’ll be able to go take an off the shelf robotic system and simply plop it into place and say, okay, like right here’s a, right here’s a Delta robotic.

Um, I’m going to place it into this business and I’m gonna connect some, , fundamental processing software program, however all the things else type of goes pre-written. the issue with that’s that these off the shelf, robots, these type of customized generic, or sorry, these generic robots they have an inclination to not hit the ROI marks that these amenities are searching for.

And so we, our entire premise is that if we construct a customized robotic, proper? It’s like from the bottom up, that is designed to be optimum for these recycling amenities. Will they prefer it extra and the suggestions we obtained actually early on and we proceed to get as sure, like that’s, that may be a large win for them. Cuz it’s less complicated.

It’s simpler to keep up. It’s simpler to put in all of these things in the case of the software program. That additionally means we’ve got to write down it ourselves. you are able to do some stuff off the shelf. however usually talking like. In the event you, if you wish to customise it and make it very particular to a recycling facility.

Yeah. It does contain a number of customized software program to be written as nicely. it’s type of enjoyable. you get to unravel challenges which are actually distinctive. Like I stated, lots of people have solved issues for decide and place, however not lots of people have thought concerning the, the particular points that come contained in the recycling area.

Like we have been speaking about, what if a bottle is soiled? Like what do you do about it? and so, yeah, customized software program as nicely, customized, it’s all, it’s all customized. And the thought is that if we are able to customise the machine. we are able to construct a machine that these amenities are literally gonna profit from. That’s finally our purpose is to assist them do their recycling and their sortation higher.

Abate: Mm. So, after which simply to get an image of the make-up of your staff at glacier, are you guys one thing like 50% software program engineers, 50% additionally some {hardware} and hardcore robotics individuals.

Areeb Malik: Yeah, that sounds about proper. I feel that’s that that’s a reasonably good break up. I might, I might say like as founder, proper? I used to be a software program engineer earlier than this. and if I take a look at What I’m constructing immediately versus what I used to construct. you want so many disciplines of engineering to make this work, proper.

We’d like CV engineers, generalist software program engineers, firmware engineers, electrical engineers, the entire, the entire slew of engineering. And so, yeah, we’ve got a reasonably broad spectrum. We’re a small firm. So everybody will get type of like stretch their wings and type of discover into like completely different realms. however yeah, I might say on the entire we’re, we’re type of divided alongside the, the software program {hardware} line, like about 50%.

Abate: Yeah. Yeah. And so I additionally know your staff simply very not too long ago got here out of stealth mode and also you’re undoubtedly nonetheless very a lot a startup. Have you ever guys already began or planning on quickly doing a pilot at a sorting facility and with the ability to check it out in actual time.

Areeb Malik: Yeah. So I can’t title too many names, however we’ve got accomplished two pilots already and we’ve got a 3rd one which’s ongoing at present. and so we’ve got put these machines on the market. It’s nice to see them run. It’s all the time so enjoyable. Simply activate our, our, , nanny cams and be like, oh appear to be there’s our robots sorting via recyclables.

How cool. and so, yeah, we, we, we’ve got a pair pilots type of underway we’re at a degree as an organization the place the target proper now could be principally refine this machine. So it’s. It’s it’s excellent. Proper. We, we all know that these clients, like, they don’t perceive why constructing these items is difficult. They only desire a machine that works.

Um, and so our goal is to get the machine to work so nicely, they don’t even give it some thought, proper. As a buyer, you simply wanna be like, okay, cool. I’ll purchase this robotic. You put in it. And then you definitely by no means give it some thought once more. And we wanna get to that time. In order that’s the place a number of the main focus is correct now.

Um, by way of, by way of what we’re creating on the engineering facet.

Abate: So that you’ve now you’ve put in this technique in a pair completely different locations. Are there any key learnings that you just’ve gathered from seeing this truly in place inside a, a buyer’s sorting facility and so they’re truly getting their arms on it and utilizing it. And now they’re sitting there evaluating this to what an individual can be doing two months in the past.

Areeb Malik: Yeah, it’s a, a very good query, I feel from their perspective, proper? Like after all they will evaluate this to an individual and robots and persons are they’re, , analogs, however they function very otherwise from one another. as I type of talked about earlier, like an individual. They’re our arms are so good.

I’ve seen individuals pull a can out of a plastic cup earlier than and so they take the, can they put into the can pile, take the plastic cup, they put within the… Like robots by no means gonna be capable to try this. Not less than not, not in like the following 10 years. Proper? That’s not one thing we’re attempting to attain. And so getting them to know this distinction, like this isn’t a defacto alternative on your individuals.

It’s a sorting know-how that helps you obtain higher high quality at decrease prices. That’s what we’re promising. when you take a look at the learnings we’ve, we’ve made thus far, I might say. These set up places, they’re wildly completely different, proper? You may’t simply make one robotic that does one factor. and put it right into a, accomplished a dozen completely different places, cuz every set up… the scale of the belt, the, the quantity of density on the belt, the commodities you’re selecting, the place are you taking it to?

All these items, modifications, set up to put in. and so one of many, the nice issues about robotics is you’ll be able to, [00:35:00] you’ll be able to program the software program to be very dynamic, proper? And you’ll say this, this {hardware}. It appears to be like similar to that {hardware}, however these robots are literally very completely different on the within due to how they’re configured due to how they assume based mostly on the stuff that’s coming down the road.

So with the ability to construct know-how that’s dynamic sufficient to deal with all kinds of conditions I feel is, is essential to our success.

Abate: Yeah. And are there different robotics gamers within the recyclable business?

Areeb Malik: Yeah, there are a number of which are possibly a few years older than us at this level. In the event you take a look at the market as an entire, it’s, it’s undoubtedly very nascent. Numerous the amenities we speak to have heard about these different recyclable sorry, these recycling robots. and a number of them are, are ready for the time to be proper or they’re ready for his or her subsequent retrofit to suit them in.

Um, however when you take a look at type of the market as an entire. Most amenities have heard about them, however haven’t put in our robots. when you look type of past the robots of like, what else is gonna occur to those amenities? You step inside certainly one of these amenities and also you’re gonna be fast to see like, oh, there are like 15 optimizations we might do.

Um, and so, , robots first , there’s comp rivals, however there’s a number of area. After which past the robots, there’s a ton of alternative to simply construct out know-how that helps these amenities and helps the recycling business function extra effectively.

Abate: mm-hmm yeah. So what’s subsequent at glacier?

Areeb Malik: What’s subsequent at Glacier, will we take over the recycling business and repair the world?

Is, is the tip?? That’s subsequent.

what are we doing? So I type of talked about we’ve got these two prototypes the target technically is to get the machines, to be nearly as good as doable. after which begin getting them into extra , amenities throughout the nation at that time, proper? Like as soon as we get this machine down and we are able to truly identical to, press the rocket ship button on it get these items in all places.

My imaginative and prescient is that one arm of glacier is these robots. And the query turns into, what else? What else can glacier do with our standing within the business, with the know-how we’ve got with the individuals we’ve got on our staff? How else can we positively impression how we as a society deal with our waste?

Um, and there’s a number of alternative there. There are a number of concepts. There are a number of issues we have to vet out within the markets.

Um, however as I discussed earlier than, this business is absolutely massive and it might undoubtedly use a bit of bit of affection from the tech business. So we’re hoping to type of get the robotic up and working. Let that type of be an arm of the enterprise after which concentrate on what comes subsequent.

How can we subsequent enhance our , capacity to, to take stuff away from the landfills and get it again into the financial system? is it compost? Is it information? There’s an entire, entire slew of issues we may very well be going into. we, at this firm, by no means name ourselves a robotics firm. We take into account ourselves a recycling know-how firm.

Um, and so what comes subsequent is, is no matter we are able to do finest to assist this business align.

Abate: mm-hmm. superior. Superior. What’s a great way for individuals to comply with up on glacier and your progress?

Areeb Malik: Yeah. So we’re, we’re engaged on our search engine optimization, however when you when you go Google search us, you’ll discover our LinkedIn, our Twitter, all that type of stuff, which we’re clearly , posting on often with updates. we even have an internet site which is endwaste.io.

Um, and so you’ll be able to go over there to take a look at a bit of demo of the machine and type of see what it appears to be like like, cuz I can’t clarify it nicely sufficient with my phrases. however , check out what it appears to be like like, see our open roles, all that type of stuff.

Abate: Thanks. Thanks for talking with us.

Areeb Malik: In fact it was, it was nice and it’s like I stated, it’s, it’s very thrilling to be sharing this info with individuals as a result of I feel everybody must know a bit of bit extra about how recycling works.

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tags: Algorithm Controls, c-Atmosphere-Agriculture, cx-Atmosphere-Agriculture, Industrial Automation, podcast, Robotics know-how, startup